Forums - MvC2: Bottom Tier Thread Show all 80 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- MvC2: Bottom Tier Thread (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=56048) Posted by Pryde on 03:01:2002 05:26 PM: MvC2: Bottom Tier Thread You guys must be wondering why I'm making this thread. Well, I made this thread so we can argue in here, instead of the other thread on why Hayato is bottom tier. These are my Bottom tier list in no specific order. Hayato Roll Servebot Dan Zangief Thanos Sabretooth Shuma-Gorath Keep in mind. These are just my opinion who belongs at the bottom. So argue about Hayato in here. Posted by TripleAgent on 03:01:2002 06:16 PM: Damn Hayato, Shuma-Gorath is not bottom tier. I would think middle/lower 3rd. With 1 good assist, 1 better super and 6 buttons (for the j.mk crossup), she would be toward the top of the 2nd. She was a murderer in the 2 games she was in before MVC2. Posted by TripleAgent on 03:01:2002 06:18 PM: BTW, Thanos isn't either. Garbage assists, but with a good assist and 2 or 3 meters, he's REALLY dangerous. You need to see someone's good MSP get smashed by Thanos with Commando behind him. Posted by Remy Saotome on 03:01:2002 06:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by TripleAgent Damn Hayato, Shuma-Gorath is not bottom tier. I would think middle/lower 3rd. With 1 good assist, 1 better super and 6 buttons (for the j.mk crossup), she would be toward the top of the 2nd. She was a murderer in the 2 games she was in before MVC2. Shuma-Gorath is an it. It came from another dimention and absorbed all of the other dimention (The Chaos Dimention) into itself. It contains both the male and female elements of the Chaos Dimention, making Shuma an it. Posted by TripleAgent on 03:01:2002 06:21 PM: quote: Originally posted by Remy Saotome Shuma-Gorath is an it. It came from another dimention and absorbed all of the other dimention (The Chaos Dimention) into itself. It contains both the male and female elements of the Chaos Dimention, making Shuma an it. That's some raging controversy, but I never read the Infinity Gauntlet or Dr. Strange, so pardon. Posted by Pryde on 03:01:2002 06:41 PM: Although shuma and Thanos ain't at the bottom, they still suck though. Thanos really sucks, he has infinte dash, that's a little useful, he can punish assist pretty well and his soul gem super doesn't take that much. All his other supers are to risky to use. Shuma...he is an ok character, but he's unexplored. Good chipping ability, lvl 3 grab which is hard to pull of these days. He just can't compete it. He's near the bottom. Only if his projectile went all the way across the screen. Go defend Gayato, list reasons why he doesn't suck. Convince me. Hate-Ato sucks. Posted by Bojack on 03:01:2002 06:46 PM: Man, Pryde, just when I thought you were turning out to be a cool guy. You go an diss up on Hayato AGAIN! Oh well, I guess there are those that will never see the light! ---B.j. P.s. I've given plenty of reasons why Hayato is not on the bottom. They're all in the other thread. Posted by Pryde on 03:01:2002 06:57 PM: Bo Jack: I made this thread, so you can argue for your characters, I've heard your points already, but you're the only one who's really arguing, other people are jibbering other crap. Yet I still see no potential for him, he can't with top tier, he can't hang with 2nd tier, that's y i don't think he's good. You argue that he can give OR a good fight. I dare you challenge Clockw0rk's OR. He has a pretty good one too. You seem to be determinant, I think you should try picking up Storm or something. Seriously though, I've been playing this game since day 1 and I thought Hayato was cool back then, but he's just not up there to compete. He probably can fight 3rd tier and lower, but nothing else. Other characters in the 3rd characters actually have some good matches against top and 2nd tier. Hayato doesn't that's the only reason why I don't think he's good. I know you're not arguing that he's top or 2nd tier, you're just arguing that he's not as bad as we think he is, but seriously though, Hayato will bring you nothing but empty pockets. If you wanna have fun with him, then go ahead. Posted by TripleAgent on 03:01:2002 07:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by Pryde Although shuma and Thanos ain't at the bottom, they still suck though. Thanos really sucks, he has infinte dash, that's a little useful, he can punish assist pretty well and his soul gem super doesn't take that much. All his other supers are to risky to use. Shuma...he is an ok character, but he's unexplored. Good chipping ability, lvl 3 grab which is hard to pull of these days. He just can't compete it. He's near the bottom. Only if his projectile went all the way across the screen. Go defend Gayato, list reasons why he doesn't suck. Convince me. Hate-Ato sucks. I'll definately concede they aren't great like they should be (MSH beatings come to mind, MSHvSF for Shuma, too), they are still playable. I have plenty of tactics from when I was trying to relive their glory at the beginning of MVC2, lol. You're wrong about Thanos, as well as you play Doom, you could make something happen if you wanted. What I mean is that you have to overcome the initial disadvantages of the crap and abuse the good stuff. Thanos/Doom/AAA you like best is good. Posted by Th3 0N3 on 03:01:2002 08:08 PM: Personally I think Sabretooth has potiential, Latly i've been exploiting a lot of lower tier character and i've found that some of them are quite useful against certain high tiers although fault towards others, hience making them lower tiers. although theres probably a way to turn the tide on those matters... Posted by TripleAgent on 03:01:2002 08:17 PM: I think the right team build can help the 2nd and 3rd tiers. Assists can make almost any character win. Posted by Defective on 03:01:2002 09:09 PM: Are you going by point skills or everything in general because Sabertooth has two good assists. The Birdie and Berseker Claw assists are pretty good for projectile assists. Sure they can't be abused but they can be useful. Posted by Bojack on 03:01:2002 09:21 PM: All right Pryde. I hear ya, we cool man, we cool. And yeah, I can use Storm although I don't do too well with her cuz I'm not content to run all day so I start doing lots of rushdown, eat AAA's you know how shit like that goes. ---B.j. Posted by wipeout2049 on 03:01:2002 10:15 PM: WHAT!!! If you are saying that Zanglief, Shuma-Gorath, Sabertooth, Hayato, and Thanos are bottom tiers, you deserve to get beat up in a match by them. Let this be a thread to prove that they do not suck. I will be back later to explain. Bye Posted by MadHatter on 03:01:2002 10:57 PM: you're bottom tier Posted by BarrelO on 03:01:2002 11:13 PM: Personally, I think Servbot has more to offer for a team than, say, Spider-Man. Servbot's small, he can chip well, and he's good at filling the screen with crap. As for Spidey, he still has the MvC1 mixup, but seeing as how he has absolutely no mixup game whatsoever, how is he going to land a hit? EDIT: Okay, I just saw the thing in the other thread about Spidey jumping in with 1234. So I guess that counts for something. Still, who would your rather have one-on-one against Sentinel, Servbot with five meters or Spidey with five meters? Posted by Dasrik on 03:01:2002 11:32 PM: Servbot is not bottom tier. He has good chip damage potential. P.S. Thanos sucks. If you want, I can prove how he loses to anyone who simply holds up-back and calls assists. P.P.S. wipeout2094 - shut up. Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:01:2002 11:49 PM: OK, First off I'm glad I see this thread. But I kinda disagree with a couple of the choices. Thanos - I've wrecked some pretty good top tier teams using Thanos/Chun Li/Commando. Mainly using a Thanos trip combo with Commando's AA to land his bubble and start the infinite. And Thanos with meters can be very nasty. Personally I find that the Reality super of his is great to destroy some keepaway games. You just have to make sure you hit it or have something great coming after it in a DHC. Also, being able to have a super as an assist has its advantages. Shuma - I like it for a couple reasons. I love the team of Shuma/IM since there is a fairly easy way to land the Chaos Dimension via a combo or IM locking someone on the floor for a bit with a Unibeam. Its Mystic Smash does crazy chip damage, Shuma can play keep away(one on one) pretty well especially on most pixies(jumping FP and RH have hella priority against ground based rushdown, somewhat like IM), has a throw that helps gain life back, and lastly both of his assists can be very useful. As for Gief, I'm really not going to argue him as being any higher. But I do love his Ground assist, especially after he is mechanized. He literally wipes out most any assist in the area that way. Plus the way he juggles them as well as the length of time he juggles them is awesome. Here are a couple of things I've done with him as the assist: - Hulk - Has a ground combo linked into Gamma Crush in which the opponent never touches the floor. 100% on Cable! - Cable - Landed 2 shorts with him while calling out Gief, taunted and still had time to AHVB the opponent in a combo. - Magneto - Been able to land various forms of unmashable tempests from his ground assist. - Blackheart - basic BH/AAA combo as well as landing 2 short foward chains into his manuel lancher in the corner while Gief juggles them. Can start the infinite from the assist as well. - Sentinel - helps his rushdown somewhat and can easily land HSF, rocket punch, or a launcher with his assist. These are just a few examples of what I've done from his assist. I definitely think that his assist is far from bottom tier. Posted by Dasrik on 03:02:2002 12:03 AM: quote: Originally posted by DoomsdayKen Thanos - I've wrecked some pretty good top tier teams using Thanos/Chun Li/Commando. Mainly using a Thanos trip combo with Commando's AA to land his bubble and start the infinite. And Thanos with meters can be very nasty. Personally I find that the Reality super of his is great to destroy some keepaway games. You just have to make sure you hit it or have something great coming after it in a DHC. Also, being able to have a super as an assist has its advantages. * No one knows how to roll where you come from? Or that the infinite is mashable? * If you hold up-back on Thanos, he can do all the supers he likes, he's not going to touch you. Land a couple of good hits (not hard, he's a big grape ape), then hold up-back up until Thanos gets frustrated and tags out, or until he does something you can hit. He can literally do NOTHING about someone who jumps back (or even straight up!) on him all day. Oh... I don't agree that Gief is bottom tier either. Actually, the only people I'd say are bottom tier are Hayato and Roll. As bad as Thanos, Sabretooth and Gief are, they still have their uses. Hayato and Roll have none. Posted by Incredible Hulk on 03:02:2002 12:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by DoomsdayKen - Hulk - Has a ground combo linked into Gamma Crush in which the opponent never touches the floor. 100% on Cable! What is the Hulk combo? Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:02:2002 12:19 AM: You might be right about jumping up and back on Thanos alone, but what about Thanos and an assist. Thats a whole different story. No, people do know how to roll. Usually what I do though do the combo trip combo into the bubble then launch. I try not to over use rollable combos. And I do know that the infinite is mashable, thats why I would usually go for it on scrubs. But I do think that Thanos isn't that bad. His jumping Fierce has a lot of range and priority. Granted this comes into play only if he has the lead. I do think that he is a fairly bad character, especially compared to his MSH version. As for the Hulk combo it's: jumping short, jumping foward, crouching short + Gief assist, crouching foward, Gamma Crush Thats it. Try it, it should be 19 hits at max and kill most every character except the big stamina boys. About Roll, I disagree with you. She does have that good ol' rock ball trap. Thats something. Posted by Incredible Hulk on 03:02:2002 12:29 AM: Yeah I just tried it and it kills. Another one like that is with storm vert typhoon assist. The typhoons keep taken' em up while hulk goes through them. Gamma Crush is too good Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:02:2002 12:32 AM: I also have some more advanced combos with Hulk/Gief or just Hulk period if you would like to know them. I guess if there is some interest in them I'll post em' Posted by wipeout2049 on 03:02:2002 01:16 AM: Sorry for the flame. Very sorry. Actually, as I think of it, I kinda like the list of the bottom tiers for a couple reasons: First of all, half of the characters in the list are the ones that I use the most so I could say to someone"I just owed your top-tiers with 3 bottom tiers" Another reason is that this is a great opportunity to discuss about these potentially useful characters. The topic itself will attract a lot of attention so we can get everyone's opinion. Posted by Sephiroth2435 on 03:02:2002 02:04 AM: Yo what up Pryde, if you don't remember me I'm from the Boston Thread. My bottom tiers are Roll, Dan, Servebot, Ruby Heart, Gouki, and Sonson . I hate to say Sonson considering how much Caddles likes Sonson. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:02:2002 02:22 AM: Thanos isn't that bad. He's kind of assy at point, except for his ground throw (enormous range). But his DHCs are brutal. Space Gem and Reality Gem don't scale at all. Counter XX Soul Gem is pretty much guaranteed damage. Power Gem is a really good assist punisher when you put a DHC on it. And capture assist is not that bad. It works well with throw tactics, and is a great combo extender. -DFA PS. Sonson bottom tier? Feh. Posted by Pryde on 03:02:2002 08:54 AM: Damnnnnnnnn, I think I forgot to put the "s" at the end of "tier" Okay, officially, this is Bottom TierS thread. Thanos sucks ass, he can't fight he's basically a dummy for you to do your combos on, but I must admit, he knows how punish an assist. Zangief: Run from him all day and you're all set, if you have projectile, abuse that shit against him, but yes he does beat people and his lariat is good, but he's still at the bottom. Sabretooth: Can't punsih assist, his moves really don't have much priority, his assist is decent, but seriously, when I think about it, he's like a Hayato who can chip. Wipeout2049:go ahead, go try beating me with these characters, I don't think you'll succeed. Sephiroth2435: Hm.... Son Son is definitly not bottom tier, he has good AAA, 1 frame recovery one uppercut, good air mobility. Akuma does suck, but he's not bottom tier, instant super, great assist, easy 50% air combos, good chipping ability, air fireball is hella abusable. He's not bottom tier. Ruby Heart isn't bottom tier either, she has a real good trap with Doom, which makes a competitor for 2nd tier, and he water columns are too good. Posted by Goldfish24k on 03:02:2002 10:20 AM: Alright, Hayato has three basic uses: 1. Mind games-One of his plasma combo hits hit low and this catches a lot of people by surprise. Once you pop them in the air, do the wave super, then DHC. 2. His Lk is a cross-up: works quite well with Tron assist-an easy 80% if fully connected with a ground combo. 3. His rushing assist holds opponent up for a LONG ass time...enough time to AHVB or whatever...It's not invincible, but it's FAST as hell. Throw in some good air range, a nice sweep (into rushing sword special) and a quick way to get to the ground (down and HP) and you have a character with a bit of potential...Not much, but better than people make him out to be. Posted by margalis on 03:02:2002 12:18 PM: Ruby Heart is no where even close to bottom tier. On point she can do combos ending with sublimation for tick damage, and sublimation is a great assist stuffer. She is good with Doom but works well with some other too. Her sublimation as an assist is really good at breaking traps and such. It hits both characters, forces them to block for a while, comes out fast, etc. And it doesn't start close to her body, it start far out, not like a normal projectile. Think of it like Storm projectile assist, only better. Most traps that are ground based or rely on assists done at range other than point blank are broken up pretty well by Ruby. And with the right assists she can be a very annoying trapper as well. People forgot Amingo. Let's see, suck ass supers, suck ass specials, suck ass assists...sure, he can rush it with low short pretty effectively, but so can 25 other characters. Not great on point and pretty terrible as an assist. If the game was a one-one-one game he would probably be closer to the middle, but it isn't, so he's not. As far as Shuma goes...I want him to be good, but he just isn't. The lack of medium moves hurts him a lot more than many characters. Basically every medium attack he had in previous games was very useful, and now they are all gone. For a character who just rushes in with short lack of mediums isn't a problem, but for Shuma his mediums were many of his best moves. Jumping strong, low forward under fireballs, stand strong, etc. The change to the eyeball range was also bad, and now after a connected eyeball there is less chance they will stick to the person long enough to explode, with all the random crap happening on screen. His Chaos Dimension is also worse, just because there are 3 characters but the damage is the same as before. In MSH, you get hit with a CD you lose 70% life off your only character, in MvSF you lose 50% off one of two characters, now you lose 50% off of one of *three* characters...for 3 levels that is worse than good DHC's. And with a DHC you can choose to continue only if the first super hits, here you can waste 3 levels a lot easier if you screw up trying to land it. They should have made it do like 80% damage. I think of all the characters in the game, Shuma is hurt the most by the lack of mediums. Blackheart is hurt, but he gained stuff as well and has a good assist. In MSHvSF probably 3/4 of the attacks I use outside an air combo were mediums. Posted by margalis on 03:02:2002 12:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by Goldfish24k Alright, Hayato has three basic uses: 1. Mind games-One of his plasma combo hits hit low and this catches a lot of people by surprise. Once you pop them in the air, do the wave super, then DHC. Is one of his plasma combos an overhead? if not, that isn't much of a "mind-game."! All you have to do is block low! Sure, people might hold straight back for some reason, but assuming you are playing a decent opponent that isn't something you can bank on at all. Somebody has to be low tier...and Hayato might just be it! (Not alone, of course) Posted by Sephiroth2435 on 03:02:2002 12:35 PM: Your right Pryde, I guess Ruby Heart and Sonson aren't bottom tiers. I don't think before I post. Posted by Dasrik on 03:02:2002 12:40 PM: As I was painfully (albeit briefly) reminded today, Shuma has a cute little trick. Hit someone with eyeballs, then do his kick super DHCed into something cool (Proton Cannon in my case). Oops... you can't block! Posted by Incredible Hulk on 03:02:2002 12:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by DoomsdayKen I also have some more advanced combos with Hulk/Gief or just Hulk period if you would like to know them. I guess if there is some interest in them I'll post em' POst them or pm them. I would like to read them. Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:02:2002 10:57 PM: Cool, I sent you a couple of Hulk combos. As for someone saying Ruby is bottom teir, I just have to laugh. I think that she is actually somewhere near the top. Somewhat like Venom in this one where you can work some fairly good chip traps that build levels. My personal favorites are Venom/Sent/Doom, Ruby/Sent/Doom, Ruby/Cable/Doom and Venom/Cable/Doom. Also, I find that Son-Son is very underated. Her AA assist is very awesome. Then again, almost every Capcom AAA is great. I guess that they do have a purpose in this game. Posted by BIG BAD MOG on 03:02:2002 11:19 PM: Zangief IMO isnt incredibly at the bottom. He is good against pixie xharacters or characters with slow projectiles. He may be slow, but a guy would never try to get close when he is in the iron body mode. He can interrupt characters like Cammy and Jin by just running through them. IM may have the uni beam, proton cannon, and smart bomb, but it is really hard to land them on a constantly s-jumping ( while doing Spinning Piledrivers to delay landing) player. Some hyper comboes cant really be a threat to him. Proton Cannon is too slow coming out, and u cant connect it against a metal Zangief, Metamorphis Throw cant fully hit him cuz he can just walk out of it, and a hyper grab to Magnetic Tempest cant really barge him down. Zangief also cant be launched. The only thing thats bad about him is that hes slow, and characters with a good projectile or assist can easily punish him. He isnt as bad as Roll, but hes not as good as Storm. Hayato, hes bottom. Hes just too slow and doesnt have any massive things to make him stand out. Roll is dead last for tiers IMO. Posted by sabretooth on 03:03:2002 06:32 AM: I don't think Roll is number 56. Roll can do decent rockball traps(she can control space better than the entire bottom tier). Her assists are decent enough to help her partenr controls some space. She has some mobility(double jump and projectiles that makes she floats), special that works in DHCs, a high priority throw and, if you manage to hit someone, she can do giant combos that end up taking more than half of the opp's life(more or less in the same level of the other bottom tiers). I think that, taking all of this into account, she's better than Hayato, Zangief, and maybe Dan and Shuma too. The rockball trap alone beats all of them. What you guys think? Posted by Yumi Saotome on 03:03:2002 09:36 AM: Gamma Servbot is 2nd tier. I fear Gamma Servbot. Do you realize how much chip damage Servbot/Doom do together?! It's freaking insane! Alpha Servbot, now THAT's the worst character in the game. Posted by Silver Paladin on 03:03:2002 10:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik As I was painfully (albeit briefly) reminded today, Shuma has a cute little trick. Hit someone with eyeballs, then do his kick super DHCed into something cool (Proton Cannon in my case). Oops... you can't block! Also, if you make them block (say Doom AAA) you can grab them with the Chaos Dimension though block stun. It's a cute trick, but it doesn't do much damage for 3 levels...but still, it's there if you absolutely, positively need to kill a character at 60% (let Doom take down 10%, then CD him for the other 50%. Servbot rocks; at least middle tier. Servbot/BH/Doom is devastating namely because BH can build good supers for Servbot and works great with Doom. Plus Servbot is one of the few counter characters for Sentinel. Zangief has his uses, usually in mecha form. He's the best anti-rush down assist in the game; Magneto, Storm, you name it, he'll grab them when they try to triangle jump you. Posted by Pryde on 03:03:2002 12:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth I don't think Roll is number 56. Roll can do decent rockball traps(she can control space better than the entire bottom tier). Her assists are decent enough to help her partenr controls some space. She has some mobility(double jump and projectiles that makes she floats), special that works in DHCs, a high priority throw and, if you manage to hit someone, she can do giant combos that end up taking more than half of the opp's life(more or less in the same level of the other bottom tiers). I think that, taking all of this into account, she's better than Hayato, Zangief, and maybe Dan and Shuma too. The rockball trap alone beats all of them. What you guys think? Roll doesn't really have rock ball trap since, she doesn't have MM's one button projectile, but she does have other uses, she has decent mobility, her size gives her slight advantage for not being comboed, but then again, she can't launch, but she does have a great throw range. I really don't know if she's dead last, but she's a competitor for being last, so you tell me who's last. Posted by Edma on 03:03:2002 04:06 PM: Gee, I didn't even see this thread. How about this for results, I just got about a 10 win streak at SHGL friday with Hayato/Storm/Commando with wins over both Clockwork(either Omega Red/Strider/Doom or Omega Red/Sentinel/Doom or OR/Strider/Doom, I forget now. In fact, I beat him twice. You should be ashamed Dan....) and Viscant(Spiderman/Storm/Commando). And Hayato definetly pulled his own weight in everyone of those wins. You can ask them if you want. Now if anybody EVER beats either of those guys with Roll or Servebot then, just... no, it's not going to happen unless they're passed out at the controls. Course I eventually lost to Viscant's Dhalsim/Storm/Ryu. But then, I never said Hayato was better then Dhalsim. But you better believe he's better then Roll and Servebot for crying out loud. Posted by Edma on 03:03:2002 04:21 PM: I really don't know why people keep thinking Servebot counter Sentinel. Against any decent Sentinel, Servebot won't be able to 1) get enough meter to even try to chip Sentinel much before he dies or 2) even be able to pin down Sentinel to make him block the super even if he had plenty of supers to spare. He can jump around all he wants and call assists and hope he doesn't get hit but he's going to die by chip damage himself much faster then Sentinel will even if he blocks everything. Servebot is there as a joke character. Just like Roll. They're cute though. Posted by Bojack on 03:03:2002 06:37 PM: Finally, some one else who doesn't think Hayato is that bad. ---B.j. Posted by Nemesis00 on 03:03:2002 08:01 PM: OK everyone says the Chaos Dimension was changed but they are wrong.Shuma can combo into it and OTG out of it into his infinite.Shuma also has a decent air game.I dont know how but whenever I do an air combo with him I end up on the other side of the opponent and continue to pummel the opposition.Also an air combo into its health draining grab mashed is awesome.Plus its dash goes under certain attacks and projectiles.Its only really flaw that I see is its stamina is horrible.He like Hayato has some good pokes but Hayato is the poker of the game.I can use him decently but I know there is a way to combo into his Lv 3.Stop dissin charaters people.All these characters have a use its just that nobody has found the right one yet.If these characters served no purpose then they wouldnt even be in the game Posted by Pryde on 03:03:2002 08:13 PM: ha, stop dissing the characters, why would you care, but anyways, some of them were in the game, cuz they were in previous games, like roll, shuma, etc... Well, you people definitley do have some interesting arguements for your characters. Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 03:03:2002 08:17 PM: damn....i need to practice mvc2 more....i hate the game but man i only one twice with my hayato team yesterday........damn that capcom assist......how would you other hayato users get around it???...it give mes so much problems. Posted by Dasrik on 03:03:2002 11:45 PM: quote: Originally posted by Edma Gee, I didn't even see this thread. How about this for results, I just got about a 10 win streak at SHGL friday with Hayato/Storm/Commando... *snip* That's some laurels for Hayato to rest on if he gets fucked up, eh? Posted by S3nTiN3L on 03:04:2002 02:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dasrik As I was painfully (albeit briefly) reminded today, Shuma has a cute little trick. Hit someone with eyeballs, then do his kick super DHCed into something cool (Proton Cannon in my case). Oops... you can't block! That was me switch out next time dasrik Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:04:2002 02:56 AM: Damn, I totally forgot about that little glitch with Shuma. I tend to actually like him in this game as well. I love the way that you can combo the Chaos Dimension, I still like his corner combo, I like both of his assists, and I absolutely love the way he has a decent level one super. With that being said I think that the lowest 5 characters are: Roll Hayato Dan Spiderman Chun Li Posted by thanos on 03:04:2002 06:17 AM: quote: Originally posted by Pryde Roll doesn't really have rock ball trap since, she doesn't have MM's one button projectile, but she does have other uses, she has decent mobility, her size gives her slight advantage for not being comboed, but then again, she can't launch, but she does have a great throw range. I really don't know if she's dead last, but she's a competitor for being last, so you tell me who's last. She can kick the rockball, call Sent or BH and do QCF projectile sor the other one. It's not MM's like, but its a pain to sucky characters, does some chip and batteries. Posted by thanos on 03:04:2002 06:22 AM: quote: Originally posted by Edma Gee, I didn't even see this thread. How about this for results, I just got about a 10 win streak at SHGL friday with Hayato/Storm/Commando with wins over both Clockwork(either Omega Red/Strider/Doom or Omega Red/Sentinel/Doom or OR/Strider/Doom, I forget now. In fact, I beat him twice. You should be ashamed Dan....) and Viscant(Spiderman/Storm/Commando). And Hayato definetly pulled his own weight in everyone of those wins. You can ask them if you want. Now if anybody EVER beats either of those guys with Roll or Servebot then, just... no, it's not going to happen unless they're passed out at the controls. Course I eventually lost to Viscant's Dhalsim/Storm/Ryu. But then, I never said Hayato was better then Dhalsim. But you better believe he's better then Roll and Servebot for crying out loud. Props to you, but you're depending too much of the team. You put hayato first since his assist and DHCs sucks. For Dan, you can put he last and have a decent AAA for you Mags or whatever. Or you can use the projectiel assist and when you got someone cornered with your mags, you have the extra option of VCing someone into 4 levels. Roll can hide behind the assists with rockballs or be in secodn and works for the team in DHCs. Shuma in second will have a good chance of dealing 60% damage even against good chars, thanks to Doom assist and the unblockable. I don't know who's worse, but all of them got decent options. Spiderman is not much better than hayato also, he has a better assist and can mixup jumpins a little better, probably weaker combos though. Posted by Viscant on 03:04:2002 09:32 AM: Hayato did nothing! I lost to Commando. My team was Spiderman/Sentinel/Commando and I don't think I got hit by anything but corridors and hail that fight. I can't think of anyone but Roll who is worse than Hayato. We discussed this earlier, but for the benefit of those not in the Vis-civic at the time... MAYBE Amingo. I'm still not 100% sold on that. They both suck, need you to get hit, have mostly worthless assists, godawful alpha counters, almost no damage. MAYBE Chun-Li. But she has not 1 but 2 really good and annoying assists, an airdash, good chip patterns. I doubt that she's worse than Hayato. MAYBE Servebot. But he doesn't need you to get hit to win, goes good with an already established duo, makes fighting him miserable. Only time I'd say Hayato is better is on ultra-high damage. I'm not saying he's tournament material, but he's not a bad character. I can't even think of any other characters who even get close to the level of suck that Hayato brings to the table. At least all the other crappy characters like Zangief either have a really good assist or some mindless tactic like turning iron and jumping around with fierce over and over that owns a few characters for free. With Hayato, not only do you not get to win, you have to work like hell and still get pasted. --Jay Snyder Viscant@aol.com Posted by SakuraForever on 03:04:2002 11:22 AM: I love Roll. She's probably one of my favorite characters in MvC2. I think she's cute, and I love how every one of her entrances mocks one of Striders. Every time she double jumps, saying "ecchi [pervert]" is hilarious. The point is, though, I thinks he's probably DEAD LAST in MvC2. At least Servebot has excellent chip, and the novelty of being un-fucking-believably annoying. It doesn't matter if it's the computer or Viscant; if someone see that opponent picking lil' ol' Kobun, many groans ensue. He's even worse than "I-Block-Everything" Charlie on the last levels of the game. So I think Hayato's better than Roll. Better combos, better hypers, better assists (IMO), and he does more damage and takes less. But I played Roll/Doom with Variety assist in a tournament in Tulsa and won! When DarthSalamander puts up the Tulsa trailer on www.clockw0rk.com, you'll see a brief snippet of it. I took second in the tournament, but only after abandoning poor kawaii Roll. -Ben W. PS: What the hell is more annoying about the computer: It's ability to ALWAYS predict whether or not to techroll, it's ability to almost ALWAYS tech-hit on later levels, or it's ability to techroll the Hailstorm for only two hits? THAT'S THE CHEAPEST EVER! WHY CAN'T I DO THAT!??? Posted by BarrelO on 03:04:2002 06:45 PM: I guess I'll say a few words on Amingo's behalf. Granted, he's pretty bad, but I think he's better than Hayato. For one thing, he can fill the screen with his little helpers. Also, standing fierce is a good safe poke (which can be cancelled into helpers). And it just now occurred to me that tiger knee pumpkin attack may have potential. It's not much, but it's something. Posted by Edma on 03:04:2002 07:07 PM: No, Hayato did not do NOTHING you big fat liar, pants on fireeee!!! Just cause I had Storm/Commando doesn't mean Hayato did nothing, died right away and then Storm/Commando went to work. I just made him ghetto Cyclops against you Jay jumping around and hitting RK cause I didn't feel like running into your Commando. I never said Hayato had to attack. You got swiped by random RK's(his RK has great range/speed) and hit by random Commando's cause you were attacking so that we were about even in health most of the time. I think Hayato got hit by Commando just once. And my point with Spiderman being worse. You hit me with at least two combos cause I was just jumping around not being careful enough and I still wasn't dead. You didn't hit me with Spiderman because of some 1234 mixup(which I can block anyway) or whatever but because I got hit by low short a few times. Something Hayato can just as easily do. I mean, his dash is just as good as Spiderman's. Correct me if I'm wrong here of course but that's what I remember. Anyway, you hit me with two combos and I wasn't dead. I actually still had a little under half life left. You even threw me at least twice. To tell the truth, you played Spiderman better then I played Hayato and I still didn't lose. That should say something. If I hit you with one combo from Hayato(which I didn't even do cause I wasn't attaacking but we were still even), Spiderman is going to lose at least 85 percent of his life when I DHC to Storm. Course that never happened cause I didn't manage to land a hit and just decided to DHC to Storm when I saw an assist. Which Spiderman can't do that as fast cause his supers are slow to come out. Spiderman also can't jump around and hit buttons to build meter cause his moves are too slow. Spiderman is worse then Hayato. A large part of Marvel 2 is about doing big damage ASAP. That's why when Cable hits you with low short, you groan. That's why when Cyclops hits you with low short in Jay's Cyclops/Gambit/Morrigan team, you groan. You know your character is probably dead. No one groans when Spiderman hits them with low short. You maybe lose about 35 percent life and that's it. But if Hayato does, you groan cause your character is also very likely dead. That's one reason why I'm saying Spiderman is worse. It's not like he has any better chance of hitting someone than Hayato. He has air dash which of course helps out but that's it. Hayato can, on reaction, punish a lot more things than Spiderman because of his back + FP and QCF punch moves because of their speed in coming out. This includes things like ice beam and cylcone kick and magneto c. FP. I killed off Dan's OR in about 10 seconds with Hayato without DHCing cause I landed two combos (using Storm's assist of course). Let's see Spiderman do that. His gay reset combo is crap. Even if I can't tech hit I'll just let you throw me and now I'm on the other side of the screen. Anyway, I know most of you will just side with Jay cause he is Le Viscant. At least he can beat Combofiend. I apparently am programmed to always lose to him no matter what. Posted by Ping on 03:04:2002 07:49 PM: Been a while since I last posted. I never did quite understand the whole "Hayato sucks" thing. My friend plays Hayato most every match, and he does quite well with him. He's a patient player who often waits for an opening for a qcf+p(2 hits) xx qcf+kk. It does pretty good damage, though sometimes for whatever reason you can roll from it and punish or block partway through. I never understood that. He uses the Down+hk to land quickly or get in a surprise hit. He begins plasma combo chains then cancels them into the qcf+p then into the qcf+kk. Also he uses Jin with Hayato, and DHC's into qcb+pp with Jin (Blodia Vulcan) and it connects. But my friend doesn't always just get Hayato out of there. He Usually holds Hayato in there for as long as he can before DHCing him out. His team is usually something like Hayato/Jin/Charlie, and he holds his own against teams in the arcade rather well. Teams of Iron Man/Storm/Cable/Magneto/Sentinel/etc. Why does Hayato suck? Please enlighten me. I'm not saying he's top tier or anything, but I don't think he's bottom tier at all. Posted by TS on 03:04:2002 07:59 PM: Ryu and the Wolverines are pretty decent. That's all. Posted by Bojack on 03:04:2002 10:09 PM: That's what I've been saying all along. Hayato doesn't suck! His combos really do too much damage for him not to. Look at this, j.Hp, c.lk, c.lk, s.Hp, Shiden (one hit) xx Rasetsu Zan. On the ground this is a 100% precent reliable combo is unescapable and can be let run it's course and do 65+ (~55-60%) damage for one measly super bar. Also, you can easily DHC into some triple hyper combo of doom. People just hate Hayato cuz he doesn't have some gay I win for free tactic like most characters. Because you have to play so smart and carefull with Hayato and because he can't break traps or stop run away well (like any one who's not top tier can do that anyways) he sucks. If only Capcom gave him some super duper safe "I can do this all day for free" move he'd then be considered like upper tier. But alas, no cheap easy wins for Hayato so people say he sucks. Also, Hayato vs. Servbot, one decent Rasetsu Zan combo and Serv's nearly done for. Same thing with Hayato vs. Roll. On a side note, Spiderman doesn't suck THAT much. c.lp, c.lp, Hp Spider Sting xx Max Spider (cancel Spider Sting SUPER FAST and aim left or right instead of down) and you can connect a super for aroun 50-60 points damage. But all any one ever sees in Spidey is his stupid air combos ending with stupidly predictable air throw or some reset along those lines. His quadruple Web Swing is cool too alhtough useless except in well, I can't think of any good uses. It's useless but still kinda cool. I don't think Sabertooth sucks either, j.Hp, c.lk, c.lk, lp Bersek Barrage xx Auto Combo (sorry don't know name) is pretty good. It can even be comboed twice in the corner. So no, I don't think Sabertooth is that bad either. In fact, my low tier consists of three people. Even if you're Hayato, smart playing means you have no problem handling these characters. Zangief Servbot Roll Well, that's all I got to say about that. Other than HAYATO DOES NOT SUCK! I get routine wins with Hayato all the time. It's not that hard. Just wait around and most every one will screw up eventually. Then it's like BANG MUTHA FUCKA you DEAD! Posted by margalis on 03:04:2002 11:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by BarrelO I guess I'll say a few words on Amingo's behalf. Granted, he's pretty bad, but I think he's better than Hayato. For one thing, he can fill the screen with his little helpers. Also, standing fierce is a good safe poke (which can be cancelled into helpers). And it just now occurred to me that tiger knee pumpkin attack may have potential. It's not much, but it's something. Bleagh. Calling the cacti helpers is slow, AHVB bait. The helpers get knocked away too easily and track horribly. If they do hit you are rarely in position to take advantage. His pumpkin attack can sort of be used as a ghetto air dash, at least to mix things up a bit, and his air to ground game is pretty good with jumping rh and short. Still, nothing special, sucky supers, and terrible assists. Posted by Chaotic Blue on 03:04:2002 11:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by Edma And my point with Spiderman being worse. You hit me with at least two combos cause I was just jumping around not being careful enough and I still wasn't dead. You didn't hit me with Spiderman because of some 1234 mixup(which I can block anyway) or whatever but because I got hit by low short a few times. Something Hayato can just as easily do. I mean, his dash is just as good as Spiderman's. Correct me if I'm wrong here of course but that's what I remember. Anyway, you hit me with two combos and I wasn't dead. I actually still had a little under half life left. You even threw me at least twice. To tell the truth, you played Spiderman better then I played Hayato and I still didn't lose. That should say something. If I hit you with one combo from Hayato(which I didn't even do cause I wasn't attaacking but we were still even), Spiderman is going to lose at least 85 percent of his life when I DHC to Storm. Dude, your crazy. Spiderman has 80% combo's if you want to use assist. He even has his own version of a justin combo. (launch, aa, fierce, maximum spider) But he also does have a standard somewhat easy to do 40% + combo which ends in spider-sting xx maximum spider. The reason why Hayato "appears" to be much stronger than spiderman is because his combo's are really easy to do. But spiderman can do everything that Hayato can do and a little better. What hayato is missing is a quick projectile, fuck anyhing to get your opp. to block so you can get in. quote: Spiderman also can't jump around and hit buttons to build meter cause his moves are too slow. Spiderman is worse then Hayato. I disagree, spiderman is like one of the only characters which can practically do the magic series on an average sized character as a jumpin. Hell, the other that comes close i think is morrigan. That builds decent meter in itself, spiderman really isn't so good at running away, if you want to build meter with him you have to attack. quote: A large part of Marvel 2 is about doing big damage ASAP. That's why when Cable hits you with low short, you groan. That's why when Cyclops hits you with low short in Jay's Cyclops/Gambit/Morrigan team, you groan. You know your character is probably dead. No one groans when Spiderman hits them with low short. You maybe lose about 35 percent life and that's it. But if Hayato does, you groan cause your character is also very likely dead. That's one reason why I'm saying Spiderman is worse. It's not like he has any better chance of hitting someone than Hayato. He has air dash which of course helps out but that's it. Hayato can, on reaction, punish a lot more things than Spiderman because of his back + FP and QCF punch moves because of their speed in coming out. This includes things like ice beam and cylcone kick and magneto c. FP. I disagree agian here. A large part of MvC2 is lockdown. If you can attack freely and relentlessly then you will more than likely win the game. Lockdown covers both keepaway and rush-down. Like spiral or cable attacking from the other end of the screen to spiderman, or magneto jumping all around you so that you can't move, its all the same. If the game was all about big damage, there would be nothing but sentinel and colosus and ken. I think those can do the most damage *thinks carefully* and juggernaut. Oh and spiderman can punish those same things because his moves come out so quickly as well as his dash. quote: His gay reset combo is crap. Even if I can't tech hit I'll just let you throw me and now I'm on the other side of the screen. Which reset are you talking about. I don't think i've seen it. quote: Anyway, I know most of you will just side with Jay cause he is Le Viscant. At least he can beat Combofiend. I apparently am programmed to always lose to him no matter what. Na, in comparision peter's spiderman does more damage than his hayato, and i just like spiderman, that's why i think he's better. Chaotic Blue Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:05:2002 04:08 AM: OK, about Spiderman, I think Spidey is better than Hayato. Why you ask? His ground game is better, his launcher is better, is a harder target to hit, has fairly good throw priority, has a decent AAA, and an air dash. And for Zangief, there is no way in hell he's at the bottom of the barrel. In Mech Gief mode his assist totally owns all rushdown and he matches up well with a lot of the roster that doesn't include beams. Also, his SPD does MvSF type damage again and even a normal air combo from a jump-in takes around 50% I.E. J. D+Short, C. Jab or Short, C. Strong, S.J. Short, S.J. Foward, S.J. Roundhouse or Fierce. Not to mention his great Alpha CounterXXFinal Atomic Buster. Posted by Bojack on 03:05:2002 04:16 AM: Yeah, Mech Zangief, what a way to ask for assists to kill your ass. ---B.j. Posted by BarrelO on 03:05:2002 05:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by margalis Bleagh. Calling the cacti helpers is slow, AHVB bait. The helpers get knocked away too easily and track horribly. If they do hit you are rarely in position to take advantage. Lots of things done at a distance without any protection are AHVB bait. I didn't say he could throw them out with abandon. quote: His pumpkin attack can sort of be used as a ghetto air dash, at least to mix things up a bit, and his air to ground game is pretty good with jumping rh and short. Still, nothing special, sucky supers, and terrible assists. Agreed. I conceded as much when I said that he was pretty bad. Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:05:2002 05:07 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bojack Yeah, Mech Zangief, what a way to ask for assists to kill your ass. ---B.j. And Hayato isn't. Keep in mind, Gief could call an assist while getting hit, and still wail away at the point. And as an assist, he's almost unmatched in terms of anti-air purposes, he stops rushdown cold. Posted by Dasrik on 03:05:2002 05:19 AM: Spider-Man > Hayato. Why? * first and above everything, Spidey has mixup. Crossups, air dash, projectile - the only thing Spider-Man doesn't have is an easy damaging combo. Hayato has strong combos but that's it. The counter-strategy to Hayato is to clobber him a few times then just superjump and block the rest of the match. Since Hayato can't counter the counterstrat (just try to hit someone and actually do damage with Hayato when they're running away from you), that's peace out. * Spidey is quick - Hayato is not. * Spidey is mobile, and please don't tell me "the airdash is slow" because it seriously is fast enough to get him places. * Spidey has a fireball. And it helps. * Spider-Man's uppercut assist is actually halfway decent. If it hits grounded people, you can follow up. More later... Posted by Bojack on 03:05:2002 06:25 AM: Ok, let's play some Theory Fighter here, 'Gief goes Mech. I then run around with Hayato j.Hking. What's Mech 'Gief's defence against that and the occasional proj. assist? 'Geif can't hurt the assist that much, can't block of course, so I can occasionally call free assists, sure they might take some hits but I can let them heal and then continue. I can also j.Hk to possibly stuff some of your own assists. Also if 'Gief tries anything against the assist it's not hard for Hayato to dive in land a hit or two depending on what 'Geif is doing then get out quick. Once 'Gief goes Mech he's not gonna do anything but soak up assist damage till he dies or goes back to normal. Sure he can hurt the assists but I can let them heal all day long. It's not like 'Geif will be easily able to land a snapback unless I screw up BIG TIME, and then it's not Hayato's fault it's mine. I NEVER pair up Hayato up without a good proj. assist like Iron Man, Storm, or Sent. ground (which is more of a proj. assist anyway) and then it's the slow painfull death for 'Gief as he takes random hits he can't do anything about till he dies. Sure he beats out rush down in Mech mode but it's not like anyone's dumb enough to go near some one like that so his ability to blow thru attacks is not really worth anything. Now if he got a speed increase too then it'd be different. But as of now all Hayato has to do is jump around and land assists + long range pokes to beat Mech 'Gief. Sorry but this battle goes to the Skywalker wannabe. ---B.j. Also, compare Spidey's ground dash, sj. and regular dash jump to Hayato's. Hayato and Spidey are about the same. Spidey's air dash can only be cancelled after he swings downard making it really easy to spot and avoid so even if it does get him places it's not gonna be that usefull. The only thing that makes Spidey ahead of Hayato as of now is the fact that he can run and web ball all day. That's it, the sole reason Hayato loses to Spidey, run away. I also don't see where Spidey's mixup game comes from unless you either have a comatose enemy or and assist in which case you can't say Spidey has that over any one else since any one can mixup with assists, it's no Spidey exclusive if he's using Sent. ground or Doom AAA. Posted by Amingo on 03:05:2002 06:51 AM: hmm well i personally don't think amingo's that bad :P i bet lotsa people played him when he first came out, i think his main asset is actually his j.rh. of course, i'm not saying he's all powerful, but that 3 hit j.rh followed by his quick c.short (should be c.long for the range it has) c.forward is relatively safe and you'd be surprised how many people fall for it... of course there's also the old argument about no chip and any aaa = bye bye amingo but then doesn't that apply to everyone who rushes? as for low damage, he has one of the most powerful and easiest air comboes for lower tier characters... you can even do some half-assed mind games in the corner by doing 123424 fierce pumpkin/onion/veggie of choice, that causes flying screen so they can't roll and as you come down j.rh, some people don't block all 3 hits esp if you do them late so that the 3rd hit is low to the ground, leading to another air combo in the corner... mix it up with not doing j.rh as you come down and immediately do c.short... which is fast and long enuff to mean that anytime magneto does a blocked launcher = air combo then again, my amingo got totally locked down by spiral sentinel and couldn't move an inch so... like i said, he's not top tier... Posted by Silver Paladin on 03:05:2002 06:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bojack Ok, let's play some Theory Fighter here, 'Gief goes Mech. I then run around with Hayato j.Hking. What's Mech 'Gief's defence against that and the occasional proj. assist? Exactly. You're playing Gief vs. Hayato+Assist. Of course he loses. But he'll still do good damage just by jumping and doing his D+Fierce Body Splash. Turn Gief Mecha. Switch out to someone else. Use Gief to stuff Jump-ins, and OTG them off his assist. His assist by itself is more useful than even Hayato's Point + assist ability. Plus, like I stated before, he's the best low tier counter to Triangle jumping. As for Edna, maybe versus ShadyK or Duc's Sentinel, but I find that against most of the Sents I face, BH/Servbot/Doom gives you ample opportunity to charge your meter and get off the chip super. BH charges very quickly, Doom not only does good chip, but you can use him to lock down the opponent until you're ready to chip. (Wait for him to leave the screen so you get more servbots on the super though). Even Sentinel + helpers won't stop a decent BH/Servbot/Doom team from getting off multiple chippage opportunities. Plus, Sentinel can't fly over the servbots because Servbot is grounded. He tremendous chip from Servbot because he's so freaking big. And Servbot doesn't get chipped a lot. Chip damage is the same on every character (as far as per hit goes). Servbot comes out ahead because he's so small that a lot of things that could chip him will miss (ie. 2/3s of the Hyper Sentinel Force, a huge portion of Hailstorm and Magnetic Tempest, etc.) Posted by Bojack on 03:05:2002 08:25 AM: Sliver Paladin, using Mech 'Gief as an assist is not actually using 'Gief. If we judged characters by assists then CapCom and Tron and Ken would be top tier easy. And if you read carefully I say that he can hurt my assists, I did not say how but he can but like I said it's easy as banannas to let the assists heal. So, no Mech 'Gief still doesn't beat Hayato out, at least, not till some Mech 'Gief player comes down to Orlando and actually shows my Hayato's ass up. ---B.j. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:05:2002 08:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by Bojack Ok, let's play some Theory Fighter here, 'Gief goes Mech. I then run around with Hayato j.Hking. What's Mech 'Gief's defence against that and the occasional proj. assist? 'Geif can't hurt the assist that much, can't block of course, so I can occasionally call free assists, sure they might take some hits but I can let them heal and then continue. I can also j.Hk to possibly stuff some of your own assists. Also if 'Gief tries anything against the assist it's not hard for Hayato to dive in land a hit or two depending on what 'Geif is doing then get out quick. Once 'Gief goes Mech he's not gonna do anything but soak up assist damage till he dies or goes back to normal. Sure he can hurt the assists but I can let them heal all day long. It's not like 'Geif will be easily able to land a snapback unless I screw up BIG TIME, and then it's not Hayato's fault it's mine. I NEVER pair up Hayato up without a good proj. assist like Iron Man, Storm, or Sent. ground (which is more of a proj. assist anyway) and then it's the slow painfull death for 'Gief as he takes random hits he can't do anything about till he dies. Sure he beats out rush down in Mech mode but it's not like anyone's dumb enough to go near some one like that so his ability to blow thru attacks is not really worth anything. Now if he got a speed increase too then it'd be different. But as of now all Hayato has to do is jump around and land assists + long range pokes to beat Mech 'Gief. Sorry but this battle goes to the Skywalker wannabe. call assist, Flame Breath, jump forward w/ towards-HP + call assist, Flame Breath...etc. You do: jump up with random HKs. Get hit by towards-HP. Trades in my favor. jump up with nothing. Block towards HP and be guardbroken onto the assist. jump back...continue pattern til we reach the corner. Call in assist. Either the assist gets stuffed by Flame Breath, OR...assist hits me (my assist may or may not hit your assist). Either way, your assist lands right in front of me. I Lariat XX Siberian Blizzard your assist. I lose 10% damage, your assist loses 60%. You better let him heal for a Loooooooong time before you try that again. Attack me with anything...Siberian Blizzard or Team Super. Trades in my favor massively. SJ: jump forward 2-3X and throw you as you land. DB + LP Throw, follow into air with option. You lose 20-40% life. I lose 3-5%. Even worse, if I have the lead, and you don't have BH/Capcom assist, I SJ and whiff SPDs for free meter. You follow me into the air, you get thrown for 15-20%. Do something stupid from below and I do Elbow Drop, then we play the try-to-do-wakeup-attacks-against-a-Hyper-Armored-Character Game. Whee. -DFA Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:05:2002 04:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove call assist, Flame Breath, jump forward w/ towards-HP + call assist, Flame Breath...etc. You do: jump up with random HKs. Get hit by towards-HP. Trades in my favor. jump up with nothing. Block towards HP and be guardbroken onto the assist. jump back...continue pattern til we reach the corner. Call in assist. Either the assist gets stuffed by Flame Breath, OR...assist hits me (my assist may or may not hit your assist). Either way, your assist lands right in front of me. I Lariat XX Siberian Blizzard your assist. I lose 10% damage, your assist loses 60%. You better let him heal for a Loooooooong time before you try that again. Attack me with anything...Siberian Blizzard or Team Super. Trades in my favor massively. SJ: jump forward 2-3X and throw you as you land. DB + LP Throw, follow into air with option. You lose 20-40% life. I lose 3-5%. Even worse, if I have the lead, and you don't have BH/Capcom assist, I SJ and whiff SPDs for free meter. You follow me into the air, you get thrown for 15-20%. Do something stupid from below and I do Elbow Drop, then we play the try-to-do-wakeup-attacks-against-a-Hyper-Armored-Character Game. Whee. -DFA My point exactly! I think that Bojack is assuming that Gief is just going to sit there...:LOL: Oh well, you took the words right out of my mouth so I got nothing else to say. Peace. Posted by Remy Saotome on 03:05:2002 04:11 PM: OK, let's see. Lots of Servbots info to play with. First off, Servs alpha is not worst, Servs beta is. At least alpha is a good assist and you can combo into Lunch Rush. Flame Blast is a crappy assist and it is hard as Hell to combo into Servocopter Bomber. Anyway, Servs gamma is too good. Pair him with Dr. Doom for cover and you can start filling the screen with rocks, running servbots and flying servbots for free chipping and meter. Any time you have 2+ meter, call Doom assist to make them block, then do Servbot Swarm. ~25% chip damage with Doom and the super together. If they somehow manage to take the hit instead of blocking (Like you whiffed or something), just DHC to a strong super (Like Headcrush or Hailstorm). Plus, the Servs are really tiny and can run away on your ass all day long. He has the best jumping speed in the whole game (equal to BH's), and his jump is the lowest, meaning he spends the least time in the air of any character. And he can stand directly underneath most of the projectiles in the game and not get hit (Only a few low-hitters like Viper Beam and charged Mega Buster will hit him). Servs gamma paired with Doom and any high-damaging assist or good meter builder owns. If you really want to know, Servs best teams are Juggernaut (DASH)/Servs/Doom and Storm/Servs/Doom. Power-up glitch Juggy for the damage or runaway to build meter with Storm. I have taken many Sentinels down with the Servbots on both of these teams. Oh, yeah, the Servs can own Hayato by simply calling Doom and holding up-back. Or you can call Doom and throw his projectiles until you can force a blocked Servbot Swarm. Sentinel-specific information: - rk Servocopter + Doom is abuasable against flight mode and can be used against a standing Sent. - The Servs can duck Rocket Punches. - Against either drone attack, throw a jp Servbot Slam + Doom and then super-jump over or dash in after the other Servbot to avoid the drones. - HSF doesn't hurt the Servs too badly. Only the bottom drone hits in each set for a three-hit combo and ~10% damage. - Random attempts to be caught by a chipping Electric Cage XX Safe Super can be push-blocked and then punished with fp Servbot Slam, dash-in, King Kobun. - The head-jump throw easily pisses people off, especially Sent players, it seems. Do this as often as possible, despite the crappy damage, because it can lead to Sent making punishable mistakes. - Do not get caught by RPs! Three will finish the Servs. - Also be wary of a Sent (or anyone) with BH assist. BH abuses the lag on Servs projectiles. My bottom tier list, in alpabetical order, would include: Dan Hayato Roll Servbots-alpha Servbots-beta Sabertooth Zangief True, characters like Thanos, Amingo, and Shuma-Gorath have trouble, but can do well in the right situations. As somebody once said (I think it was Pryde), Amingo can be like a big, fat, spiny Mags. And Shuma has some good comboes and a good chipping super with Mystic Bash. And Thanos with meter only needs to land one hit to do some crazy-ass damage. Plus, all of his supers are pretty DHC-friendly, both for coming in and going out. Posted by Banshee on 03:05:2002 04:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove call assist, Flame Breath, jump forward w/ towards-HP + call assist, Flame Breath...etc. You do: jump up with random HKs. Get hit by towards-HP. Trades in my favor. jump up with nothing. Block towards HP and be guardbroken onto the assist. jump back...continue pattern til we reach the corner. Call in assist. Either the assist gets stuffed by Flame Breath, OR...assist hits me (my assist may or may not hit your assist). Either way, your assist lands right in front of me. I Lariat XX Siberian Blizzard your assist. I lose 10% damage, your assist loses 60%. You better let him heal for a Loooooooong time before you try that again. Attack me with anything...Siberian Blizzard or Team Super. Trades in my favor massively. SJ: jump forward 2-3X and throw you as you land. DB + LP Throw, follow into air with option. You lose 20-40% life. I lose 3-5%. Even worse, if I have the lead, and you don't have BH/Capcom assist, I SJ and whiff SPDs for free meter. You follow me into the air, you get thrown for 15-20%. Do something stupid from below and I do Elbow Drop, then we play the try-to-do-wakeup-attacks-against-a-Hyper-Armored-Character Game. Whee. -DFA Damn Z's cool :P... and if you really can't handle hayato, tag your assist in and watch as Hayato tries to "rush that shit down" on MZ-ground. lol. sigh... if only mega Zangief could block Posted by Bojack on 03:05:2002 04:26 PM: What makes you think I'm gonna sit there? Say you do go to punish an assist with Mech 'Gief. Well, there's a great chance for Hayato to land some hits. And what's 'Gief gonna do if all Hayato does is sj.Hks? They have enough range and little enough lag that I don't THINK 'Gief has anything that will let him blow thru the sj.Hk from Hayato and still be able to hurt him. That's just how I see the Mech 'Gief match, me jumping around, 'Gief jumping around trying ot catch me, 'Gief getting hit by random assists and run away pokes, 'Gief slowly losing the battle. I may be wrong seeing as there are no Zangief players in central Florida but these are just things as I see them whilst sitting in front of my CPU typing this crap up. ---B.j. Posted by Banshee on 03:05:2002 04:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Bojack What makes you think I'm gonna sit there? Say you do go to punish an assist with Mech 'Gief. Well, there's a great chance for Hayato to land some hits. And what's 'Gief gonna do if all Hayato does is sj.Hks? They have enough range and little enough lag that I don't THINK 'Gief has anything that will let him blow thru the sj.Hk from Hayato and still be able to hurt him. That's just how I see the Mech 'Gief match, me jumping around, 'Gief jumping around trying ot catch me, 'Gief getting hit by random assists and run away pokes, 'Gief slowly losing the battle. I may be wrong seeing as there are no Zangief players in central Florida but these are just things as I see them whilst sitting in front of my CPU typing this crap up. ---B.j. Why would MZ chase you?? all MZ needs is commando. You cant SJ forward, and if you SJ back with kicks, MZ normal jumps w/f+fierce, calls commando, does a blue flame. Basically getting you in the corner and baiting your assist. Man, you didnt even READ DFA's post. ...Or maybe you didn't understand it?? Posted by G.Bonne on 03:05:2002 05:31 PM: Ok check this out: one-on-one Zangief vs Hayato Zangief OWNAGE what can hayato do??? nothing. what can z.gief do??? piledrvie hayatos ass!! Posted by thanos on 03:05:2002 07:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by sabretooth I don't think Roll is number 56. Roll can do decent rockball traps(she can control space better than the entire bottom tier). Her assists are decent enough to help her partenr controls some space. She has some mobility(double jump and projectiles that makes she floats), special that works in DHCs, a high priority throw and, if you manage to hit someone, she can do giant combos that end up taking more than half of the opp's life(more or less in the same level of the other bottom tiers). I think that, taking all of this into account, she's better than Hayato, Zangief, and maybe Dan and Shuma too. The rockball trap alone beats all of them. What you guys think? I think that you're right. Roll is better than Hayato. he can't touch her. she can chip. If they run into each other in the air she'll get the throws. She can do DHCs and offers better assists. Both can do the same damage out of combos. she losts only on range of her normals, but so does Cable... Posted by Silver Paladin on 03:05:2002 07:32 PM: MZ was a lot of fun. I was FABing Juggy out of his Headcrush, Hayato out of his QCF+P, Storm and Magz out of their triange jumps, and pretty much Lariet XX FABing every jump in from ANYONE. He's not top tier, but I think FABing ANYONE out of their super is the ultimate "fuck you" you can give to a scrub. Posted by FINAL SHOWDOWN on 03:06:2002 02:39 AM: i dont see why zangief beats hayato....i mean if he goes for his moves that have that hit buffer thing it doesnt really matter since the plasma combos nulify that stuff......i guess mecha zangief would do better but still then he cant block i dunno.... dont really care to argue about hayato....getting tired...lol....can only take so much. Posted by DoomsdayKen on 03:06:2002 05:30 AM: The fact that Mech Zangief can't block really doesn't matter versus Hayato. Hayato has to be in close to hurt Gief, except for his one wave super which is can be SJed out of and leaves Hayato on the floor for an extended period of time. Hayato would desperately need a great assist to make this fight close, and even then Gief could simply counter assist. Posted by Silver Paladin on 03:06:2002 06:51 AM: Plus MZ would just have to walk forward through the wave super and take nearly no damage (because the waves don't knock him back). All times are GMT. The time now is 12:47 AM. Show all 80 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.